Why $10 charge

Ken's picture

I've looked at your product a few times and played with them.  I had signed up for the free acount but to see it but never used it.  Then in I get a notice that I have a $10 charge for September?  It's not payed because I don't have a payment type attachecked.  I never signed up for the $10 account and i checked and my account is and has been set to FREE.  I immiediately cancled the link to my amazon account and have not used the service so I'm not setting up a payment method for what I've been incorrectly charged.

 

Please explain and take care of.

 

Jeremy Davis's picture

Apologies that you missed the emails that we've sent out previously to alert of this price change. Previously TKLBAM storage had a premium on storage fees, but we've now added a subscription charge to motivate active users to migrate off DevPay (because it's shutting down and we don't want people losing data). FWIW the email that I sent out about 2 weeks ago is also published here on the website.

Sorry that this caught you unawares, but we essentially had 2 options: Do the price changes as "opt-out" and risk people such as yourself being wrongly charged (which we can easily refund and/or resolve). Or do the price changes as "opt-in" and risk one of our regular users suffering data loss (if they missed the emails and failed to opt-in in time).

I'm really sorry that you ended up being one of the ones that got caught. I hope that you can forgive us, given the context.

As you didn't have a valid payment method attached when the charge went through, then you haven't been charged (obviously). It also sounds like you have cancelled the TKLBAM plan on DevPay. To make 100% sure I suggest that you go to the DevPay site and check that there are no TurnKey apps listed.

If you want to completely cancel your use of the Hub now, please manually close your Hub account. On the account profile page, right at the bottom you'll find a red "cancel your account" button which should explain the steps. Alternatively, when DevPay shuts down, we'll clean up all the abandoned Hub accounts.

I hope that clears things up for you. If you have further questions please post and I'll do my best to answer. If you have specific things you'd like to discuss further offline (e.g. specifically related to your Hub account), then please email me at support AT turnkeylinux.org, or when logged into the Hub, post direct via the support link (top row towards the left).

Regards,
Jeremy

Same thing happened to me. Haven't used TK in years and certainly never signed up for anything for $. I appreciate your response above, but definitely a questionable decision to start chaging people who never agreed to a fee. Might have been wise to check for account activity prior to billing people. 

Jeremy Davis's picture

Unfortunately we weren't left with much option. Amazon do pricing per product so there was no way of segmenting users and only charging those that were "active". So it was either all TKLBAM subscribers or none.

We did briefly look at trying to weed out all the inactive users and cancel their DevPay subscriptions. But there were very few users who had no backups at all. And just because a user hadn't backed up for a long time, we couldn't safely assume they were abandoned backups (perhaps they were being kept for historical/archival reasons?)

Besides the difficulties noted above, we discovered that there was no way for us to cancel individual accounts anyway. We could cancel their Hub account, but not the AWS DevPay subscription (Amazon only accept cancellation direct from the user).

Scott's picture

I too had an unexpected fee show up on my account. I was paying for the backup service YEARS ago. That server is now long dead, and so are any credentials I had to manage it. Likewise, the email address used to sign up is now mostly retired out of active duty. So I had no warning. This is not cool. Seems there could have been a way to filter out inactive subscriptions before charging for them. I have emailed amazon, as I NEVER agreed to any terms from Amazon. I have not heard back yet. I am also going to be disputing it with my credit card company.

 

I totally understand the need to change processors, and even the need to change fee structures, but hooking me up to pay for something I never agreed to is illegal!

Jeremy Davis's picture

We didn't like having to do what we did any more than you liked getting an unexpected bill. Please see my above posts detailing the background and the options we were left with. As I explained we didn't really have any good options. Whilst I understand that you would not have been expecting this charge, and I agree that it is unfair, in our opinion the other option was worse. I'm sure that you would agree if you had been one of our many current customers that may have risked losing mission critical data.

Regarding your old account. You may not recall, but you would have had to agree to the terms and conditions when you originally signed up. As we were charging a premium on storage right from the start (even if you have never been charged previously), if you had not agreed then you wouldn't have been able to create the account initially. IIRC we used Amazon's standard agreement, something like "application terms and conditions". That details that pricing may be changed at any time so long as at 14 days notice is given. Between Amazon and ourselves, 3 emails were sent out. Regardless, I can't stress enough that we still didn't like doing it, but saw no other option to ensure that we protected our users' data from the impending DevPay shutdown...

I totally understand that you would like a full refund. There is no need to dispute this with your credit card company. We have a general policy of making full refunds if anyone is not happy with any of our products or services (not just in unsavoury circumstance such as this).

I did post some details of how to ensure everything is cancelled above. But for completeness, I'll detail it start to finish here:

To cancel your TurnKey "application" billing, please go to your DevPay "applications" page. For any/all TurnKey entries that show there, please click the "view/cancel" text link directly below the entry. Cancellation will trigger an automatic pro-rata refund.

To claim the remaining balance (probably a dollar or 2) please open a support ticket with AWS customer service via your AWS console. We have already blanket pre-approved all DevPay refunds for October so AWS should process it very quickly.

If you have further concerns or would like to discuss anything with me directly, please do not hesitate to contact me via support AT turnkeylinux.org or directly via jeremy AT turnkeylinux.org

Scott's picture

AWS gave me a partial refund and said I needed to get the remaining amount from TurnKey. How do I get the remainder refunded? or should I just file a dispute with my credit card for a charge that was placed on an expired card?

Jeremy Davis's picture

From my post above:

To claim the remaining balance (probably a dollar or 2) please open a support ticket with AWS customer service via your AWS console. We have already blanket pre-approved all DevPay refunds for October so AWS should process it very quickly.

Obviously it's more than a dollar or 2 now, but the theory remains the same. The link should take you straight to the "open new support ticket" page in your AWS console. Make sure that you are logged in with the correct AWS account (if you have multiple accounts).

If you were told you need to contact us by AWS customer support, please reopen the support ticket and point them to this post and/or ask them to contact me (jeremy AT turnkeylinux.org).

Jorge's picture

Same situation here. Haven't used your service for years, I really liked it at the time and served me well, but things change. Definitely not cool that you put us in this situation, it's not good business practice to charge users this way.

 

Jeremy Davis's picture

We totally agree with you Jorge, but as I mentioned (above and elsewhere) we weren't left with any good options.

I'm sure it was a rude shock to you and it's unfortunate that you missed the 3 emails that were sent out to warn you of the coming charges. But imagine if we'd used an opt-in system!? What if users with mission critical production servers and data were to lose it because they missed the emails and didn't migrate before DevPay shut down?

I know what happened is far from ideal, but under DevPay's "application" model, it was the best bad option we had.

We are 110% happy to provide refunds, no problems. And we deeply apologise for the inconvenience. If you are having any issues getting a full refund, please do not hesitate to contact me. The best way is via our support email (support AT turnkeylinux.org).

Silvio Macedo's picture

Hi I was also surprised for being charged $10, but having used TK isos for so long, so many useful images, I think you guys should consider thinking of it as a small, very small, contribution for all tk's work. Let it go ;)
Jeremy Davis's picture

I think many people don't consider just how much effort it involves to produce, maintain and develop TurnKey. Thanks for your recognition and understanding Silvo. You're a champ! :)

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