Todd Herman's picture

Hi!  U used your Joomla 3 bundle for VMware ESXi 6.x for my website ( and it works incredibly well!

With the recent release of Joomla 4, I wanted to ask:

1 - What are your plans, if any, for a Joomla 4 bundle for VMware?

2 - What is likely timeframe for a Joomla 4 bundle for VMware?



G'day Todd. Glad to hear turnkey is working well for you!

I'll do my best to answer your questions, but I suspect Jeremy will be able to provide more concrete answers. I'll pass this on and he should be able to get back and clarify/correct anything I say here by Monday (11th Oct).

Plans: While I'm not aware of any specific plans to update Joomla / add the newer version as a separate appliance. I would be very surprised if we did not. Usually we just go through each appliance in a release cycle, see if there's any new versions of the upstream software and update accordingly, in cases like Joomla, Drupal, etc. where changes are often significant and not compatible, we'll provide a new appliance for that version. So without making any firm promises I don't know of, nor can I imagine any reason why we wouldn't provide Joomla4 whether it'll be an update or a brand new appliance however, I'm unsure.

Time Frame: I really can't answer this one at this time unfortunately, we're currently working to update all our build infrastructure to support the newest version of Debian, after which we'll update and release an updated version of all our appliances. Unfortunately this Debian update will require more work on our side than previous times. Fortunately we've also put a lot of thought into improving our tools since we have had to update them anyway, we hope that'll help this be one of our quicker releases.

Apologies for the wordy yet non-committal response, I'm sure that's not the answer you were looking for... :/

Jeremy Davis's picture

Thanks for your post Todd and welcome to TurnKey. Ongle was totally on the money.

We will definitely release an appliance that includes Joomla4. It will almost certainly be a brand new v17.0 'Joomla4' appliance (released as part of the next upcoming major TurnKey Linux v17.0 release). As Joomla v3.x will continue to be supported until August 17, 2023 we will continue to provide a Joomla3 appliance as well (while it continues to be supported by Joomla). That makes it easier for those that already have a Joomla3 site and want to transition to TurnKey.

As Ongle noted, there is still quite a bit of work to be done on our backend before we can start producing v17.0 appliances. But hopefully we will have some (public) progress info on that soonish.

Having said all of that, you could still upgrade your version of Joomla v3.x to v4.x if you wish. The Joomla site has instructions on upgrading, plus there are tons of online tutorials that you could find with a internet search. Please keep in mind that under the hood, TurnKey Linux is based on Debian (v16.x = Debian 10/Buster; v17.x will be based on Debian 11/Bullseye). Ubuntu is also based on Debian, so often an Ubuntu tutorial will also be relevant, but please be careful. Unlike Turnkey, Ubuntu is not binary compatible with Debian. So unless documentation explicitly notes that it's compatible with Debian, never add apt sources from Ubuntu PPAs.

PS no promises, but my guess is that we'll have a "RC" ("release candidate") of Core (and TKLDev) ready within a few weeks to a month. Hopefully "proper" releases of those and other appliances will start to appear within a month or so of those.

(FYI an "RC" release is a pre-release version that should be complete and bug free, but may not be).

Todd Herman's picture

Ongle and Jeremy - thank you both VERY much for such helpful info - greatly appreciate that!

Some followup questions, if I may - Is there a way to migrate the OS and application configuration/settings FROM a VM built from a VMware bundle for Joomla 3 TO a VM built from a VMware bundle for Joomla 4?  If so, is this the purpose of the TurnkeyLinux Hub?  Assuming this is possible using Hub, how can I find someone I could engage to do this work for me?



Jeremy Davis's picture

In answer to your further questions, I'll start at the end.

The TurnKey Hub provides 2 primary services; "Cloud Servers" (TurnKey servers running on AWS with a simple user friendly management interface) and "Backups" (automated remote encrypted backups).

Our built-in "smart" backup tool; TKLBAM can be linked to the Hub and used for remote automated (encrypted) backups, as well as data migration (e.g. between a local VM and a Hub Cloud server). It can also be used to migrate data between different versions (and even different appliances). However, when migrating between versions (or different appliances) manual adjustments may also be required.

So with that in mind, as I hinted, you can use TKLBAM (linked with the Hub) to migrate your data from your Joomla3 appliance to our (as yet released; no firm ETA yet) Joomla4 appliance. By default the backup will include all your current Joomla site data, files, database and other OS level config.

So whilst you could migrate your Joomla site to the new Joomla4 appliance, it's important to realise that your site will overwrite the default Joomla install included. In other words, you won't get an upgrade to Joomla4 for free. You will still need to do the Joomla3 -> Joomla4 upgrade manually yourself. There is still value in doing that (as you will be moving from a v16.x Joomla3 to v17.0 Joomla4 - so the base OS will remain (even though your site will remain as-is; you keep the newer base OS).

If you want to have a go at it yourself (or have someone else who can follow instructions) then I'm happy to assist here on the forums (for free). If you want to actually contract someone to do the work, then depending on the workload at the time, then that may be something we could look at (it's not something that we normally do, but can often do that stuff on an adhoc; when possible basis - FYI we charge $150/hr for custom work - I would guess that this job would take ~2-3 hours).

Webdug's picture

Hi Jeremy,

Can you give an estimate for the costs if I want to outsource it?

Thanks in advance.


Jeremy Davis's picture

It depends on what needs to be done. As I noted above, I estimate that this particular job would take ~2-3 hours (so @$150/hr; ~$300-$450).

Andrew C.'s picture

Any update on Joomla 4 availability?  We need to update a few of our sites soon and I was hoping you would have a Joomla 4 appliance available by now.
Jeremy Davis's picture

Unfortunately, between our relatively scarce resources and the fact that there have been a range of unanticipated issues behind the scenes, we haven't got there yet. Unfortunately, I can't give you a clear ETA, as I'm still bogged down working on other things ATM.

Currently I'm the blocker (I do the builds and the final tests prior to release). Fingers crossed, I will be able to pivot back to appliances really soon. If things go as i hope and that happens, then I would expect a Joomla4 appliance to appear within the next few weeks. FWIW the primary work has been done, but we need to build and do final tests before we can release, and I just haven't had the spare cycles to pivot back to that yet.

If you'd like to build it locally and test, then I can share how to do that, but it likely won't make that much difference on when it get's released officially. Having said that, it may still be an advantage for both of us. It might allow you start the migration planning/testing before the appliance is officially released. There is also a chance that if there are any bugs, you may be able to find them before I do (which would likely speed things up a bit as I can get someone else to investigate the bug).

Andrew C.'s picture

Unfortunately the current PHP version on the TurnkeyLinux appliance for Joomla 3 will not support Joomla 4.
Jeremy Davis's picture

The Joomla4 build code has been developed and it has passed preliminary testing. Currently it's sitting in the build queue, ready for the next batch of builds we run. Unfortunately though starting the new batch of builds is blocked as the previous batch are complete and awaiting final processing before I can publish them (inc signing the hash files).

So you have a few options:

  • Wait a bit more until it's done - I can't promise anything as it's outside my control, but my guess would be 2-3 weeks +/-
  • Build your own (the build code should "just work" now) - like Dan did for Joomla3
  • Install Joomla4 yourself on our LAMP appliance

There's probably other that I haven't considered, but if the 2nd or 3rd options suit you, please feel free to ask for support and/or assistance. If you can hold off a little longer, it shouldn't be too far away (I know I said that before, but we're much closer now...).

shootify's picture

HI Jeremy, I am also in the waiting list for your joomla 4 release, but since i need this ASAP, i went a deployed a LAM Appliance to install joomla 4, however for some reason is not working, when i try to run the installatiion something like: ERROR 500 and i dont know how to fix it, anyways looking forward for your joomla 4 release. 

Jeremy Davis's picture

Hopefully we'll have another batch of updated and new appliances ready for release not next week, but week after. The Joomla4 appliance should be good to go by then (last I checked it built fine). Hopefully that's soon enough?!

If not and/or you'd like to try to get it running yourself before hand, you have a coupel of options.

The first is to persevere with the manual install you started. I'm not 100% sure, but my guess is probably a PHP config option needs tweaking (e.g. more RAM allocated for PHP) or perhaps a missing dependency, probably a PHP module. I'm no Joomla4 expert, but if you share some info from the logs, then I might be able to help you work out the issue?

The log files to check are the files in '/var/log/apache2'. Alternatively, you can check the journal (the systemd system log). Try this:

journalctl -u apache2

The other option would be downloading TKLDev, installing that to a VM and using the Joomla4 buildcode to build a Joomal4 ISO yourself?!

Good luck and if you do want to push ahead with either of those options and need some more info and/or hit issues, please share the relevant info.

shootify's picture

I was able to install it, needed some php modules and also tweaks on the php settings like max time execution and so, but for some weird reason i was still getting an error that the configuration.php-dist was not writable, in which case i had to set the www folder to 0777 permision in order to install it. (btw i upload the joomla installation files as a root, but also try different user and same issue.) .anyways thats a way around, but dont feel confortable with it. I will wait for your release, mean while i am playing with opencart appliance.... thanks for taking the time to reply. cheers

Jeremy Davis's picture

Generally 777 permissions should never be used (for anything but testing). Here's how to reset the permissions so everything should "just work" (assuming that you install joomla to /var/www/joomla, adjust your subdir if need be):

chown root:root /var/www
chown -R www-data:www-data /var/www/joomla

Then to "fix" the permissions to what they "should" be:

find /var/www/joomla -type d -exec chmod 755 {} \;
find /var/www/joomla -type f -exec chmod 644 {} \;

Note that doing things this way is much more convenient (e.g. you can change config and do updates in the Joomla admin web UI, but like most "user friendly" tweaks does have security implications. If a malicious user compromises your admin account (e.g. comprises your password via a "brute force attack"; or leveraging some software vulnerability) then they can do anything to your site.

If you want to lock it down, changing ownership to root:root will "lock" config so even if someone malicious does get control of our site, they won't be able to do anything. The downside of that is that you'll need to re-run the above if/when you want to make administrative changes (and relock it back down when you're done).

Getting that working right may require a bit of trial and error as it is likely that there will be some directories (e.g. the "uploads" dir) that need to remain owned by the webserver for general functionality to work (e.g. if the webserver doesn't own the "uploads" dir, no users will be able to upload files).

There are middle grounds and ways you could possibly stream line the process a bit. If you're interested, please ask and I'll elaborate a little more.

shootify's picture

thanks so much... 

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